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Mark,

what say you?

In some states the courts are "Courts of equity and law" or is it "Courts of law and equity", in other words the court has a mandate to enforce fairness within the bounds of the law (NY State is one such state). This derives from English law. However, I do not believe that is the case for federal court.

If the courts were courts only of fairness, equity, what's right, etc., yes, indeed then I think that we would win. But the courts are courts of law. In our case the federal courts are courts of federal law. Congress writes those laws, and the courts are free to interpret those law but not change them. The courts can also throw out a law (this is often appealed to Supreme court). The Supreme court's job is to interpret the constitution, and to define how the lower courts must interpret the law, or to throw back the law to Congress.

We have next to no chance in lower courts.
Even if we appealed through courts up to Supreme court, and win we would loss because Congress would still be free to change the law to restrict in other ways, possibly with the same effect. In the mean time we would alienate those law makers on our side. Also USCIS would be free to stop ALL EB immigration, while the Congress decided how to rewrite the law.

In our case there is no interpretation other than the mess that we are in is the law. So the Supreme court would have to find that the law was against the constitution, which I highly doubt that it is.

Even if the supreme court found that the law was against the constitution, Congress could enact another similar law (akin to minimum sentence), that merely fitted within the framework of the constitution but achieved the same end result. A recent example of this was when the Supreme court found that Gitmo detainees must be given a right to review of their detention. The detainees were not immediately released because they were detained without review and against the constitution, no, Congress simply passed a law allowing review by military tribunal, that complied with the Constitution, and the detainees remained detained, with a totally meaningless review (not allowed to see evidence against them etc.).

Thus the branch of government that we need to convince is Congress (which by the way I think the Constitution or an amendment gives the right to government immigration).

I'm not saying do not fight, just fight smart.

To me fighting smart means going to the law makers, politely, and persuasively. It is not aggressive, it is not radical, but it is fighting wisely. So I don't think that we are backing down in the face of things that are wrong, I think that we are standing up, but intelligently, and fighting where we can win.

It is Congress that ultimately decides, the Supreme court can only say to them, "sorry, not in compliance, try again".

It is sad to lose a leader who got elected democratically.
It was also sad that few people who could support SRK (does that related to our immigration issue :confused:) but comfortably felt that missing YSR is not as important as SRK.

These rules has always been and so are they right now. Nothing is new in the memorandum. Some one publishes and one points and makes a comment and everyone else like a herd of sheep starts panicking...

Right these are nothing new. They have been followed up (very well I should add) by USCIS consistently for over 2 years now

cinqsit

A vrey very valid point!

don't you think. AC21 (the famous Yates Memo) is also a memo. People expect USCIS to follow it though.... :o

Did you send your web fax today?

Please do

Thank you

Have you got the Canadina PR? If yes, how much time it took for you get the canadian PR? I believe we need to write the english test also to apply for Canadian PR.

1. Visa recapture gives 500K visas to EB in total, or about 143K visas on top of 40K visas. So for that year there will be enough to clear the entire existing backlog. Also there will be another 140K visas coming from EB1, another 140k from EB2 will drip down to EB3. So if you count again, it is very beneficial to go after 500K visas than 50K visas.

2. This DV bill will not see the day of life.. It is dead on arrival.. There is a reason for DV visas and that reason still exists..

3. IV Core is more involved than we all know.. So I guess throwing mud at them is not fair anytime.. It is not possible to inform every thing to everybody always.. That will remain a fact going forward..

I totally agree with your point about abuse, I faced it myself while leading some earlier threads.. So either those who are leading the thread need to get over it or stop posting in public forum.. Even IV Core is no exception to issue.. But in this country every one has 1st amendment rights.. I don't think IV can stop it..

Coming to campaign ideas, IV Coordinator would always like to hear them.. So get in touch with. You can write to her @ ivcoordinator@gmail.com and talk to her..

Let me tell you one point, if we can't get the government recapture what was wasted by their own delays in processing, we can't do anything else.. Leaving some right wing nuts, everyone else supports this bill.. DV bill has lot of opposition.. So place your bets accordingly..


You have a valid point about the DV visa bil.. But you forgot one thing, Any immigration bill altering INA will also have recapture attached to it..
One more point it takes 15K to give a paper ad to say that IV supports this bill.. Do you want to run a campaign for this?? I will convince IV Core if you come even close to that $ number...
If and when this bill goes for voting on the floor, I think your valid point about giving these immigrant visas to the oldest applicants first until current backlog is eliminated can be considered as a viable amendment/feedback to lawmakers..
But I wouldn't hold my breath for that day...

To VBKris77

Now THATS what i call a solid arguing point and THATS what i call a discussion
VBKris77 - Please do not think that i am being patronising when i stated what i did above, but all my efforts and abuse taking till now were for this point of time and this reply to my inital post. Infact i was looking for someone to start something in this vein and had to wait till now. Now my faith in my fellow men has been justified (I know that was a bit melodramatic but hey after all the abuses i went through i think i can be just that bit wet in the eyes). You sir have hit the nail on the head. Now when i see your reply i got more questions. If you can clarify this for me i would appreciate it or If you know of any location on this forum where i can look see and get self educated that would be appreciated too

You have a valid point about the DV visa bil.. But you forgot one thing, Any immigration bill
altering INA will also have recapture attached to it..
My point about DV visa to most badly retrograded apps was because they have been the ones who have waited the longest out here. Now if this was recapture or removing country quota i would feel that the regular allocation would be correct. Since this is a one off my peronal feeling was that we could direct the spillover to extra retrograded apps and get some relief there

My question are -
Would DV visa to Employment based in any form be considered as an immigration bill
- What is altering INA
- So if the DV bill be considered as an immigration bill the idea of IV is that if we can get this into a law the implementation of the 50 k visas will be in the same way as the implementation of recapture bill (So that would be all spill over to EB2 till EB2 is current and then to EB3- And please that was a question for clarification not a jibe as some of the people out here would make it to be).

One more point it takes 15K to give a paper ad to say that IV supports this bill.. Do you want to run a campaign for this?? I will convince IV Core if you come even close to that $ number...
Ok to get this straight the money needs to be collected (Campaign is run) and the amount of 15 k be collected before IV will support the campaign. Just getting things in right perspective.

Tell me something please, would a campaign involve asking every one who comes in to IV forum for donations for the campaign. The reason i ask is because to run a campaign for this effort is a great idea and I have some thoughts on it but most importantly i would need the help of all the members EB2/EB3 (yes even the ones who abused me) because you guys have experience in it.

My opinion is that if we run a campaign it would have to be with a slogan that if and only if this bill gets passed the DV visas will fall to the badly retrogressed apps first. If we say that the regular recapture way wil be implemented then i think this campaign is a dead duck before even starting.

I have an idea which might or might not work but i feel that IV needs to start a disclaimer for any campaign which will state that this is the path to be taken (and of course stick with the path) and state that X % is the chance of success and that these specific situations have to occurr for any chance of the bill succeding, I mean like a flow chart and also specific tasks which have to be done by people willing to participate in the campaign. Now i do not know if you (And only you because you talk sense. If any body else want to comment with logic and way to improve they are welcome. Abusers wil be ignored) have got the sense of what i am saying but as a person who is looking at IV from the outside everything i have proposed above is based on certain hard facts which are formed as a result of my deductions by observing IV all these years

For a campaign
1. Please do not try and educate a person out here because when you do you gets very high handed. Provide them a tool (Flow charts and all i talked about before) and direct them to a location where they have access to the tool and let them form an opinion based on their self education. That way they will understand what are the 1000's of steps involved in this effort. This will lead to the fact that since the are self educated they know the risk and the percent of success or failure of the effort and when they participate they are fully aware of what are the stakes involved. This also gets to convert all the people out there (to the ones above) who are under the impression that giving money to IV will get the job done and when the job does not get done they start feeling that IV has cheated them and start making assumptions.

I know that part of what i said will look a lot like what IV was doing. Yes IV when it started was like that but somehow over the years it has become very intolerent and as some members have stated very abusive senior memebers which is very shocking. A personal effort by each and every member of IV to show civilized behaviour and make civilized conversation is a mandatory requirement. In fact (i know i wil get laughed at and ridiculed for this but) a post by each and every donor and senior member taking an oath that no matter what the provocation they will not abuse anyone on the forum will be the first step. This can also be part of new member sign up. And of course IV has the tool in hand to delete any thread they think is determental to their cause so no issues there but i would suggest making an extra effort to find out what the idea behind the person is before deleting the thread.

If and when this bill goes for voting on the floor, I think your valid point about giving these
immigrant visas to the oldest applicants first until current backlog is eliminated can be
considered as a viable amendment/feedback to lawmakers..

Ok now i am lost. What is the objective of the campaign
1. Add the provisions to the bill
OR
2. Make sure that the bill passes

Because they are both 2 different things and that brings me to my next point which is clarity of campaign (includingLetters to law makers/ donations etc). Calrity is very important here. There has been a kind of secrecy in IV which is cause of much pain and disturst. Of course i understand why the secrecy was put in first place. It must have been because of all the anti immigrants lurking around but when you think about it if the members are self educated (Like how i stated above) there is no need to inform any updates to them and hence there would be no need for secrecy. A donor forum will of
course continue as is because some things need to be discussed.

But I wouldn't hold my breath for that day...
Sir i never held my breath for this ever. Even though i am not part of IV i am aware of all the probability of success in such endevors
It was nice discussing the above with you.

Hi Neocor,

I understand your frustration very well. Of course the labor substitution is not logical, but it is not the root of the problem. Just think rationally how many people take advantage of this option. The real cause of our problem is Number of Visas. As long as it is legal, people will go for it. They should not be blamed, rather it is our inability that we didn't find the right "Approved Labor". If you find something suitable, will you not go for it?

Note that it would certainly not benefit the other 60%+ from countries other than India that are also stuck in various steps (EB3, name check). So, unless you want IV to stand for IndiaVoice, you should concentrate your admirable effort on increasing the overall quota (with increased per-country quota), excluding dependents, etc.

Well said!

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Well.. may be because we don't have any legislative issues to talk about until congress comes back from recess in November. By the way, how do you know that this practice might be ending soon. I know DOL was considering this and was receiving inputs back in April but nothing came out of that. They have thought about this before and they are thinking about it again. DOL knows that this system is being misused to the fullest extent and want to put a stop to it but they never do due to the pressure from companies misusing them. Why do you think DOL will act now? I have my doubts that anything will be done.

I have seen at least three thread in the past that discussed labor sub bashing. So you guys made your point, it is an evil practice and it screws those standing behind. We already know that this practice might be ended soon. So why are we discussing this issue for the fourth time all over again? :rolleyes:

get your facts right first. India is not actively supporting sri lanka. It would be suicidal for india (especially considering nutcases like you that exist) to even think of that again. Sri lanka is using israeli uav's and chinese fighter aircraft and artillery to fight the ltte. In fact, india is at a strategic disadvantage now because we choose not to help sri lanka militarily. And in fact, sri lanka has always suspected india of supporting the ltte. Read about the "string of pearls" geopolitical strategy of china before letting your emotions run crazy.




India rightfully doesn't care about the ltte. Ltte is a terrorist organization. Period. They killed a former prime minister and it doesn't matter if you support the congress party or the bjp. This is beyond politics and concerns the nation. The primary humanitarian issue in the conflict so far has been with mullattivu. As soon as that stage started, shiv shankar menon, the indian foreign secretary went and conveyed india's concerns to the president and other higher officials in colombo. You tell me what india should do. Should we send the ipkf again maybe? Let's get realistic.


Fine, i don't agree with my government all the time. But i don't say i'm ashamed of my country like you did. In this situation, india does not have any control unless we want to go to war with lanka. And the ltte is a terrorist organization declared by the usa. So now genius you tell me,what should we have done.


Awesome. Good for you. India won't miss you either. And i can tell you right now, you are the kind of a person who will not have any loyalties anywhere but to a very small narrow race or culture. You do not understand the definition of a pluarlistic democracy and will never assimilate anywhere. The day the us says something about the lankan conflict or any other conflict which you disagree with you'll bolt to canada. I guarantee that. It doesn't matter to me what you do but don't go around misleading people here by casting aspersions on what india or for that matter any country can do in a complex geopolitical situation. You don't know half of it and you better grow up and admit it.



Fyi, i am not tamilian but i have lived in tamil nadu for more than 10 years and can speak it fluently. Needless to say, i have a lot of tamilian friends and know the culture. I understand the suffering that the sri lankan tamils are going through, especially in the mullattivu region. But we have to understand this is a war which has been going on for decades now. What do you expect to happen in a war? Rave parties?

Anyway hopefully, this will mark the end of the sufferring of both sri lankan tamils and sinhalese from now on. Both sides in that country have gone through enough already.

Also i give a rats a** how long you've been in iv. It's your attitude and narrow minded selfishness which tell the whole story for everybody to see.

well said !!

I couldn't agree more with you. The limited number of GC is definitely a critical factor. But we have contributed to this mess ourselves. Look what happened with EB2 India. Did India started producing EB2 talents overnight? No; rather we started polishing our resumes with inflated years of experience and job description so that we can apply to EB2. The system is too liberal and based on trust. If employers start scrutinizing resumes and certificates a lot of applicants will simply drop off from the GC queue.

Totally disagree with you. People do not inflate their resumes and apply for EB2. There is no need for that for many of us in the profession for more than 10 years already. Besides, it comes under immigration fraud and leads to deportation.

EB2 India is clogged up because people who applied for EB3 five or six years ago switched to EB2 by applying with newly promoted positions and transferring old EB3 priority date.

It all comes down to USCIS/DOL/SWA/BEC processing paper-based cases at tortoise pace and making loads of money for their employees and their pensions. Had they processed cases quickly with electronic processing, EB2 India would not be backlogged like this.

I thought the same way as you did too. I am no fan of these job shop companies but remember some one will pay the price and face hardships I hope its just those companies not the employees. But the way things are if this gets effective employees can also get into a limbo - which I dont like - like say someone has gone for visa stamping and that gets denied or worst his/her family is still in the US - or something like that. Its true that the employee should try and look for a new job opportunity meeting new regulations but its not easy as it sounds.

More important point to consider is that new rules/regulations the way I understand it were suddenly implemented mid-stream - you cant do that. What if in after some time they apply same regulations to say people on EAD and using AC21 (i am still not clear whether it already applies to EAD we will have to wait for legal experts to comment) ? Or worse yet they come up with new regulations for people who already have their GC's approved ?

cinqsit

In Para 1, I think you have answered your own dilemma. With due respect and regard to all nobody is a fan of consulting companies except for maybe themselves, but many good and well qualified people work for them for various reasons as some of the posters have summarized most important one being the Green card. The current memo is almost like a notice to gradually shut shop for them, it impacts not only the company but the employee and his / her family. If somebody has to return because of a re-definition of "Employer/Employee" then it�s a really bad thing to happen, in this case the ship will sink with all on board.

In Para 2, I believe again you are right, low hanging fruits and easy soft targets are the first to be picked up. I think more enforcement would follow, I think it started with issuing RFE's for end client letters(This is a mandatory requirement now for consulting companies). You are correct in saying that the target audience might be the next level!

The entire memo is disastrous for the entire immigrant community waiting for GC. Worst of are the people who have to file their extensions soon or have to travel.

My 2 cents.
USCIS does not control the PD dates, State dept does. The state dept will change the PD's to when it runs out of visas to provide USCIS.
Case 1: Assume USCIS and State dept are in close touch over the currently approvable I-485s which can consume visas starting July 1

If USCIS has 40K such approvable apps, then the State Dept (being in close coordination with USCIS abt numbers) would have just moved the dates to Nov 2005 for EB-2 India the date when it retrogressed and similarly to the date when EB-3 retrogression first happened for India.

The fact that they did not do this means they do not have the sufficient numbers of approvable ones. Now the new ones filed in June or July will not become approvable until at least 90 days. So if they are hoping that some of the "new" 485 petitions filed in June/July will be straightforward enuf to approve in 4 months, they have to keep dates at current at least until July end.

Case 2: USCIS and State dept are not coordinating "closely" over the approvable numbers

This means the State dept arbitrarily changed the dates to Current instead of consulting with USCIS that they have 40K approvable petitions. And why woudl they in that case make the numbers unavailable in mid-july in that case?

Lastly even if the numbers can become Unavailable it has to be announced by State Dept. So worst case scenario it can become "U" in July 11-15, which makes the claim by Matthew-OH that it can become unavailable in July first week itself ridiculous.


I suspect that at the end of last month they did not have a lot of approvable 485 cases that were BOTH:

1) Cleared namechecks.

and

2) From countries other than CHINDIA.

Hence they decided to move the dates to make use of the visa numbers. The majority of approvals you will see now will be those that conform to the above criteria. When they(the visas) are done they are done!

I don't expect to see any of the 485s filed now to get approved anytime soon unless for some strange reason dates remain current until Sept............then you might see a few lucky ones squeeze through. So new 485 filers hold your breath until atleast next year!

Come July 1st week, brace for a flood of celebratory postings online as the pre-approved cases get formally sent out letters.

Come October if not earlier it will be normal service resumed, with massively retrogressed dates for CHINDIA, and mild to moderate retrogression for ROW.

If wishes were wings, pigs would fly

thank you for your kind words. but why are you looking for PIG. are you not happy with your DOG. still we can be friends.

Thanks

MC

Based on this, I have again (yes, again) emailed by immigration lawyer and sent him the AILA's URL (although I cant see it coz I am not member of AILA).

IF AILA reports that they stopped accepting new 485 petitions for EB3-other, then it is pretty freaking scary and that means that what my lawyer told me "I cant happen, bla bla bla..." is really not 100% accurate. If it happened in June, it can happen in July. This is now REALLLLY SCARY, coz my lawyer has plans for July-end for filing.

Ever since the dates got current, it has been more stressful than the time when dates were retrogressed and almost makes me miss the retrogression days when I didnt have to depend on the lawyers for my career.

It is indeed scary...I guess rumors can come to haunt us...I know that mine is not going in before mid july...we are seeing that is visible but doesnt exist...May be august bulletin (like predicted by USCIS) will still be "C"....GOOD LUCK to all. Irony of life is...all my life i gave exams in an effort to not get a "C"....and now all i pray for is just another "C"...

WFGC2006, to my knowledge, in order to be able to apply for Canadian citizenship, you must stay in the country for 3 out of the last 4 years cumulatively, not consecutively.

For the record, when i left one of the Big 5, they still answered for 45 day letter, LC was approved, used for someone else (in Feb/07) who is in need.
How do i know? it's very simple. There were 63 LCs pending in Philadephia BEC, which are EB2s with a priority dates in Jan / Feb2002. Some of my colleagues who were with the same company already filed 140+485 last month.
Since this is a public forum, i can not give the name of the company
My company cancelled my labor process the day I resigned, tell me which big reputed company responded to a 45 day letter even when the candidate was not working with them, so that leaves us with companies like Cybersoft who filed multiple I-140 on one labor approval or there are people who are running parallel processes just to be safe and they are buying the sub. labor,so now even if the companies intention's are good,filling I-140 multiple times creates backlog in the service centers and then it is up to your fate if your file is picked up in the numerical order, in concurrent filling it was a race who got the the GC first the original beneficiary or the person who paid price for the same labor. Who are the people opposing substitution ban or the 45 day rule if you find them you will get your answers.

Difference between Job shops and reputed Companies

Indian body shoppers employ a H1b Persons and many of them are in hourly. No project then no pay. Also because of H1b and GC employer has complete control over the employees about pay and other benefits. No pay in bench is violation of law and both employee and employer are willingly accept that. Because of that employer and employee does not have any risk and employer always make huge profits without exposure of any risk. Employee also does not have any risk of losing GC process. So our body shoppers are attractive destination for GC aspirants.

The companies which follow rules are forced to pay bench or lay off. So both employee and employer are risk of survival. Companies may be under risk of heavy loss when there are too many people are in bench. That means companies which follow rules and regulations are making loss in tough times at the same time Body shops always make money and worst case scenario no loss no gain. Also GC process is uncertain for those who are working in good companies

This inequality was known by everyone including USCIS. So they are coming up with regulations. Some good apples will also be impacted when there is a rule is formed. There is no surprise of opposition as many Indians fear that it may impact them


If one filed I-485, isn't employee-employer relationship comes under a questionmark? what if that company is closed ? And if this memo is implemented, most of the GC filing IT Inc. will be shut down sooner and hence will be a big mess..they are the ones who are supporting for their GC.

Man this is complicated. I agree with you.

Any changes to the law have to be beneficial to all three IV constituents, i.e. EB-3 ROW, EB-2 India and EB-3 India.

This is not a legal issue. And this is not an issue of morality.
This is a political issue, and like all political issues, it involves self-interests of different groups. Those different groups have to come together, agree upon a common denominator, and work towards a common goal.

As an example, all indications are that this summer, our fate would be tied with that of CIR. Core group would be working to make sure that laws beneficial to us are passed. However, we will have to work with the illegal aliens and try to get CIR passed. Its not fair that they have been here illegally, while we have been here legally. But it doesn't matter whats fair and what is not.

What matters is that we got to work with them to achieve a common goal (CIR.) Likewise, the three constituents of this forum have to work together to achieve a common goal (relief for all.)

Lets see how long it takes before I have to reiterate this point. The clock starts now.

(a) INA 202(a)(3) states that the total number of visas available under both subsections (a) and (b) [...] exceeds the number of qualified immigrants [...] (2) shall not apply [...]. In your case, there are no excess visas available for FB immigrants.

(b) INA 202(e) Special Rules for Countries at Ceiling. requires that additional visas are distributed according to the world-wide distribution across FB and EB categories. Of the 100 unused visas 77 would have to be alloted to FB, and only 22 to EB categories. Assuming a 1/3 distribution in EB categories EB1, EB2, EB3, 7 would go to EB2.

If USCIS cannot follow this rule, those 100 visas would be unused for that fiscal year.

With AC21, the 100 can be assigned to oversubscribed countries, if Visas are available, ie. demand in all categories is less than supply. With EB3-ROW retrogressed, that is not the case.

Just the way I see it....

That would be great! :D

Widower Zardari will be marrying Kumari Mayawati just after election to unite subcontinent and bring peace to world.